How Much Mouthpiece To Take In

How far into your mouth should the mouthpiece be?

Sorry, I’m not going to answer that.

"Oh go on"

Alright, I’ll do my best. But if you were about to put a chalk mark on the top of your mouthpiece I have to disappoint you by saying there is no one size fits all.

I have heard people say you should take in as much mouthpiece as possible, and I have heard others say you should take in as little as possible, and both of these extremes have an argument in their favour, but being extremes they are unlikely to work for anyone unless they want a very specific sound that never needs to vary much. As the saxophone is famous for being such a versatile and expressive instrument, this is an unlikely (though possible) scenario. Most players I know want to be able to play in a variety of styles, whether amateur or professional, this is really important. There are one or two superstars who have developed a personal style and stick to it, but most of us need or want to have a bit more versatility. For a working professional, the more versatile you are the more work you will get.

Each of these extremes has an advantage, but there is a trade off. Playing with a very large amount in your mouth will definitely help you very quickly get a big loud sound, possibly because there is more reed in the mouth to vibrate. No doubt about that and many players who use an embouchure like this do play very loud, either out of choice and sometimes out of necessity (if they have to compete with an amplified band). Likewise a tiny amount of mouthpiece in the mouth would mean that a large part of the reed is stifled by their lips so less reed in the mouth to vibrate.

So why doesn’t everyone just play with the mouthpiece right in? Because this will sacrifice the control you get, not only from your lips, but also your tongue, and more importantly, the amount of reed vibrating may not equate to louder or better sound anyway. The amount of control that is sacrificed by a lot of mouthpiece taken in varies from individual to individual. The control from your lower lip (and jaw) is necessary not only for good control of effects such as vibrato and note bending, and also for the more basic function of tuning. No saxophone is 100% in tune, the more problems you have with intonation, the harder this will be to rectify if more mouthpiece is in your mouth.

Another thing to consider is that the more mouthpiece there is in your mouth, the harder it will be to get good clean articulation , as your tongue may need to be more arched than if there is less mouthpiece in the way. As I said above, none of this need be a big problem if control and versatility is not one of your aims and your tuning is so good that there is little need to vary the intonation.

In diagram A, note how the tongue is ready to articulate the tip of the mouthpiece but in B, it is arched up and further down the reed, making clean articulation much more difficult.

You can also see that in diagram B, the lower lip has less control over the vibrations at the tip of the reed

OK, again, exactly how far in should the mouthpiece be?

As I said the ideal amount can vary from individual to individual. There are some variables:

• Overbite/underbite
• Tongue size
• Mouthpiece Curve
• Tone and Style

Overbite/underbite

People with a more pronounced overbite (Lisa Simpson!), would obviously need to have their top teeth further onto the biteplate, in order to achieve he same lower lip position as someone with an underbite. When observing other players’ embouchure from photos, you need to be aware of this: looks can be deceptive!

Tongue size

Tongue sizes can vary enormously, and as mentioned above on other pages and, good clean articulation is paramount for a good tone. The longer your tongue is, the harder it will be to use it it effectively with large amounts of mouthpiece.

Mouthpiece Curve

Famous instructors such as Larry Teal advise that the correct place for the lower lip is at the point where the mouthpiece facing (curve) angles away from the the reed, and although I do not necessarily agree, I think this can be a very good starting point. From this you should also be able to understand how it is impossible to give exact measurements as mouthpieces have different lengths of curve.

Tone and Style

For any jazz or rock soloist, a personal or even unique sound is often a good thing. Top players in these fields often have the luxury of not needing to play with as much versatility as a regular gigging musician or keen hobbyist, who may need to adapt between a classical style for some pit work or wind bands and a more modern jazz, pop or fusion sound for commercial gigs or recording sessions. In this case using either extreme of a lot or very little mouthpiece could be a bad thing, unless you are very adept at quickly switching between the two ends of the spectrum

One of the best teachers ever, Joe Allard, recommends a more flexible approach, which I completely agree with. In this Interview regarding Joe Allard, David Dempsey mentions that Joe taught that there was no one answer, you need to be able to play with more mouthpiece or less mouthpiece.

The Answer to the question

The best answer I can think of is to take in as little as possible without compromising any of the sound. For some people this may well mean playing with a lot of mouthpiece in their mouth, for others it could be just the very tip. But for most, somewhere between the two extremes. So either of these two methods might work if you start from a medium amount:

• Experiment with taking in more, but while listening to any improvements. Ideally, not just loudness, as there are other ways to achieve this. Constantly check that you still have the same control over pitch (vibrato, bending, etc.)
• Experiment with less, and listen to see if there is any deterioration in loudness. Also check to see if control over pitch is improving. If so, but you are losing volume, then this could be the way to go, but work on other methods to improve your airstream (e.g. Diaphragm Breathing).

Either way, you may find some improvement, or you may just end up where you started. But it’s worth trying both. I am sorry not to be able to give you exact measurements, but I hope I have presented plenty of food for thought to help you work out your own best embouchure.

Links:

• Embouchure Control
• Sax On The Web (1)
• Sax On The Web (2)
• Joe Allard Interview